And as for his crocodile tears, what he was asking for was for me to stop disagreeing with him(especially when he was openly lying on numerous occasions), and let him have a soapbox to stand on.

Bringing it back on topic, I like the Motie idea, sentries are just not working here, I fully understand the wish to keep people happy by retaining sentries, but it does seem that to do so rather critical compromises are being made.
There is no need to remove them as such, keep what he has done if it keeps the peace, and give the ship Gila type medium superdrones, same bonuses, with the 50Mbps bandwidth. Then people will use those and not the sentries or heavies (which are just not working anyway) DLA ceases to be an issue, unbonused lights become largely meaningless as an issue as the mediums will still make at least some grazing hits. All issues resolved and the ship is then consistent with the story, and desireable.
Normal fitting consequences and compromises then apply.

So highly recommended.

Again, its just Rod in drag. There is a post a couple pages back that covers the 'logic'. It pretty much boils down to gettin an extra volly to target between re cycles and the defender thing.

So then, that's pilot failure in an inability to count volleys. So nothing to do with speed of the projectiles.

The speed at which you can change weapons to fire at new targets is constrained entirely by the weapon cycle time, not its travel time. Assuming you're able to count volleys, something most people learn by their first caracal.

You have drones. Switch your missiles, and if you screwed up the count let your drones get in the last bit of damage.

You try thinking before you post. We already did this. Even your one non-alt supporter backed out on you. You lost. Sorry little guy.

By 'proof', you mean your erroneous belief, right?

You can say it all you like, doesn't make it true.

Don't believe me? Fire up a fitting tool and add missile speed rigs, I assure you the fit DPS won't change and nor will DPS charts.

You can explain a misguided belief as long as you like, it's still wrong.

Your 'proof' is little more than 'well when the pilot is subpar, it matters. Sometimes'.

Anyway, bored of it now.

@stoicfaux

I agree and am well aware there are minor - really very minor in the scope of things - changes to performance with missile speeds.

I did read it.

Missile velocity bonus does NOT increase DPS.
Applied DPS insignificantly yes, but does not increase DPS.

If you put the new rattle and the old rattle in the same mission and have them shoot the same target, the new rattle will out dps the old every day, hands down, versus any sized target.

By 'proof', you mean your erroneous belief, right?

You can say it all you like, doesn't make it true.

Don't believe me? Fire up a fitting tool and add missile speed rigs, I assure you the fit DPS won't change and nor will DPS charts.

@stoicfaux

I agree and am well aware there are minor - really very minor in the scope of things - changes to performance with missile speeds. However Rod here rabbledabble

You're previous posts implied that you did not know the difference. I felt I needed to spell it out.

The dev blog does only mention MWD, yes.

My major issue with heavy drones has always been travel time, honestly. As far as them slugging it out with something small, they honestly still can't do that easily. As has been mentioned, orbit speed is the issue there.

But depending on the distance, in fact honestly not, sentries are the better option for firing at smaller targets. I simply don't throw out heavy drones against small targets. Even unbonused lights are a better choice if you have a target painter.

But that's the part where I'm also rather happy to have a missile bonus now. Even Rapid Heavies, with decent skills, a rig or two, and a target painter can lay down the pain against pretty much anything but an interceptor, or a Cynabal or something.

For that matter, if we aren't considering drone sniping, the Rattlesnake does have a spare highslot for a large neut, which makes the frigate issue fairly moot. (and if we're talking NPC frigates, the sentry drones take care of that reasonably well)

I had also considered that the Rattlesnake may be in a position to make good use of faction drones, since their expense can be abrogated by the increased resiliency of super drones.

Per the dev blog, faction drones will have better tracking and hitpoints than T2 drones, and are getting buffed in all other areas to be equal. So those may certainly be worth a look in regards to damage application.

Face it, you don't get +50% bonused light drones anymore.

You are correct. But the person who does get to decide, already has.

They pretty much are and have been since the worm thread. The RS is flat out better now and finally will be worth flying.
Before now it was a overtanked low dps POS. now it will be an epic medium range brawler.
Also he ain't the one doing the feet stomping and throwing his toys out of the pram.

The super drone concept was set in stone the moment they released the Worm. It's not going away, no matter how loud you howl about it.

If you want to get Chribba in here, I'll bet you a plex. Super drones are not going away.

I thought not.

If you aren't willing to back up your convictions then just shut your mouth already.

You haven't backed up anything. Mostly you just personally attack me because I have stated emphatically that the loss of bonused light drones in exchange for a massive drone hitpoint boost and a highly adaptable missile damage bonus is more than worth the tradeoff.

Because if you bought a pirate battleship to use light drones, then you're doing it so wrong that it can't be explained in words.

That, or I subscribe to F&I ship balancing threads...

Notably, as I remain unbanned, it can be easily inferred that either I am an ISD myself, or I have not broken the myriad rules he accused me of breaking.

I merely disagreed with his claims, and refused to be shouted down.

Now who's baiting?

No, in all seriousness, I don't really think that's a fair summation. I have noticed at least three separate camps, and you're thoroughly disparaging the second camp you are lining out.

You could argue with the missile buff that it's now more ewar resistant as FoF* will hurt more.

You have bonused cruises with the lights. The new RS will have no issues at all vs npc frigates and is a lot more adaptable than the current one which is just a shield domi with a beefy shield tank.

No.

Because to do that, you would have to compensate by severely cutting the missile bonus, not to mention likely removing it's applicability to all size launchers. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too.

"Management heavy" is the new complaint now?

"Grr, I have to pay attention to what I'm doing".

Ad hominem.
The sign of a defeated argument.

At least they are not throwing around personal attacks. I have yet to see anything from your camp other than demands for an overpowered monster or a less adaptable shield domi.

You asked a question.

I answered it.

What we gained from losing light and medium drones bonuses was a massive increase in missile damage, across any size missiles.

No one gives a damn what you trained it for.

Yeah, at this point I am running on the assumption that the Rattlesnake is intended to use a Gecko.

I flew a Navy Omen for a while. I would not want one of those things after me, let alone two.

One I could handle with a web, but it wouldn't be easy. Two would be my death. I would almost certainly disengage if I had the option to do so.

I'm throwing out this revised proposal for consideration and feedback. In this revision the Rattlesnake loses a launcher and missile bonuses but gains up to 50mbit of bandwidth for an additional 1-2 heavy or sentry drones.

RATTLESNAKE

Gallente Battleship Bonus: 20% drone bandwidth per level
Caldari Battleship Bonus: 4% bonus to all shield resistances
Role Bonus: 275% bonus to heavy and sentry drone damage and hitpoints

Slot layout: 6H, 7M, 6L; 0 turrets, 4 launchers
Fittings: 10000 PWG, 710 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 12750 / 8940(-358) / 9960
Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 5350(+38) / 1154000ms / 4.59
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 94 / .128 / 99300000 / 18.45s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50(-75)/ 175(-225)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 75km / 100 / 7
Sensor strength: 30
Signature radius: 450(-10)

Gila isnt a rattle.

The missile bonus give a lot more options.

Notice how he refuses to actually define his position, and keeps speaking in vague, generic terms like oil tankers.

It's because he's trolling, and he knows if he actually stakes out a position it can be refuted. He learned his lesson with his "pillars of drones" manifesto.

Light drones really are that important, apparently.

lol who liked that? really.

my mum says im very special. and fact says im right. u gonna prove me wrong? lay it all out then.

Not surprising that he replied with the wrong character though.

Lol, reported. At least attempt civility, kay?

lol nice try at a ninja edit

like i was going to say to fenris, the cheap price tag of the rattler was another reason i chose it.

my cruise rattler in summer will out dps a rage torp golem in summer. .

1350 dps rage torp golem?

the only thing it loses is 20km drone control range. but it still reaches further than a torp golem and it still applies damage to various sizes of targets better than the golem.

yeah its losing 20 from 100km.

please show me the fit where a golem can reach 80km with torps.

edited

lol what did i get wrong?

Show me the numbers, with an EFT chart that a golem will out DPS a rattlesnake shooting a caracal moving at max speed please.


Actually, out damaging it at all.

You see, the sentries hit the cruiser far better than the torps ever can. And then there is the cruise.

Still, dont let the truth get in the way of a good trolling, right?

Even with 1100+ dps from a single Gecko?

Nope. I have 15 of them right now. I don't feel silly at all.

No, that was before *you* knew we were getting them, as evidenced by your nonsense for the last couple of pages.

The rest of us had a clue what we were talking about.

One of us pays attention to twitter, fanfest news feeds, and announcements.

The other one is you.

It was already in the game. It's been in the market files for more than a week.

Do you want to shut up now, or would you like to get publicly dunked again?

Yes, it was in the game.

The Gecko Blueprint (and thus the Gecko's stats) have been viewable in the market in game since the 28th: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=340165

So it's been in the game (as in the database,) but not actually available for use until today.

The stats being available means we've been able to discuss the Gecko for days now.

The Gift of the Geckos was apparently announced during the Keynote last Friday.

Anyway, I might finally have a reason to buy an Eos...

Two Geckos on an Ishtar should get you around 6km/s MWD and ~891 DPS. Plus two mediums and a light for posterity's sake.

whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa sweet child of mine!

Hold the ******* phone.

Did Arthur Aihaken just say rapid missile launchers are good in a PvE situation?

Thirdly, at any kind of range, the Navy Domi is going to fall off a flippin' cliff, while the Rattlesnake will still hit out to it's maximum range at full dps regardless.

.

I wouldnt expect a rattler to get more dps than a brawler navy domi, but it most certainly has more tank and utility. Meaningful choices and all that.

No one is talking about torpedoes.

Yes, he had them in his example. But it's utterly inappropriate, as they are pretty much yet another paper dps mistake. There is no weapon in the game with worse damage application.

What kind of lunatic arms torpedoes for PvP? I mean, granted the possibility is there if you know ahead of time you're fighting a shield battleship or something with a sufficiently bloated sig radius to make the torpedoes damage application not completely fall off, but overall that weapon system is not worth it in a PvP situation.

Would you mind reposting that, with their ranges on it?

Especially in a battleship fight, not everything is going to be going on in point range. A great part of the adaptability of missiles in a gang situation is the ability to NOT have to reposition to apply damage across the field.

Because yes, that's in theory, with a point blank 1v1 at the sun. But we all know (Priestess Lin might not) that a point blank 1v1 at the sun isn't how the game plays out.

I would not want to accuse you of having preconceptions.
Your views and opinions are so awesome and correct, that the term preconception, has the implication that you could possibly be wrong.
I would not want to cause you any disappointment or lack of future confidence that that would involve.

do u just latch onto any excuse?

first it small drones
then its missile velocity
then its micro management
now its raw paper dps?

no, im quite happy that the raw paper dps of a rattler doesnt match the no'1 BS in glass cannon brawling. but the fact that it can get so close, whilst tanking more and even have slots to spare is a credit to the rattler.

It is not "Many" that are unsatisfied.

It's mostly you, Mournful, and Fabulous Rod's 4 or 5 alts rotating through their temp bans.

Try removing your alts from display, and we lose about 50 pages.

My first thoughts about it as well were that it was going to be insane in wormholes.

I am still very confused by your comparisons with it and the Navy Domi though.

that is because I have been doxxed and stalked in real life.

That would be anti-ewar and anti-logistics.

once a drone has locked you, you can't shake it with ECM. If you ecm the drone, it will prioritise you when the jam breaks. While you're jamming the drone, the owner of the drone will lock and shoot you. (and maybe abandon it and launch a new one).
If you jam the owner, the drone is still on its way - at 3000m/s. When it gets to you it will tear the falcon apart.

Same strategy as the dominix or ishtar but a bit better.

The really funny part of this for me is that I actually had a nice long post a while back talking about all that small gang utility and ability to chase ewar off the field with the super drones...

If you want people to stop disagreeing with you, there are two ways.

Stop being wrong, or stop talking.

TempRonLin, you realize you have made the majority of this thread useless, right?

Any hope for feedback doing the RS any good in any direction has been utterly derailed by you.

.

No one on your side has made any valid points thus far.

Here's my contribution to PvE use of the Rattlesnake with GeckosGǪ I've found that a pair of medium shield maintenance drones to accompany the Geckos works quite well in prolonging the length of time they can remain in combat. In addition, having three differently named groups of a pair go Geckos that you can recall and cycle through works great (one is in combat, one is repairing and one is in reserve). Obviously the limited bandwidth precludes the shield maintenance drone option with the new Rattlesnake, but this is somewhat offset by a higher EHP and greatly enhanced dps.

TempRonLin, I know it's hard to accept, but Velocity does not increase DPS.

As far as PvP goes, I honestly don't think people will even bother shooting a Gecko except out of spite.

The damned thing has a fairly small sig radius, and forty thousand or more hitpoints, it's nowhere close to worthwhile to shoot it.

I tend to agree (except in instances of spite). 50k EHP with a trio of drone durability rigs. Don't forget another 800 or so DPS from rapid heavy missile launchersGǪ


I was actually thinking that drone baiting drone hunters might turn into a thing.

A selective bonus on the RS hull isn't really a fault of RHML's themselves.

And I see epicurus is back to trolling.

I reported him for derailing the thread again. Once again, epicurus, people are allowed to disagree, you don't get to go on giant, entitled rants about it.

Posting because the math fail is just so unignorably large:

• 50Mbps and +275% (i.e. x3.75) bonus to heavies/sentries
-+ 2 actual heavies/sentries (or 1 gecko), 7.5 effective heavies/sentries
-+ 5 actual mediums, 5 effective mediums
-+ 5 actual lights, 5 effective lights


• 50Mpbs and +50% (i.e. x1.5) bonus to all drones and +275% (i.e. x3.75) bonus to heavies/sentries
-+ 2 actual heavies/sentries (or 1 gecko), 11.25 effective heavies/sentries -+-+ OP
-+ 5 actual mediums, 7.5 effective mediums
-+ 5 actual lights, 7.5 effective lights


• 50Mbps and +50% (i.e. x1.5) bonus to all drones and +150% (i.e. x2.5) bonus to heavies/sentries
-+ 2 actual heavies/sentries (or 1 gecko), 7.5 effective heavies/sentries -+-+ acceptable
-+ 5 actual mediums, 7.5 effective mediums
-+ 5 actual lights, 7.5 effective lights

And you are being told that your ideas will result in an overpowered monster.

There are several who agree that epicurus' ideas will become an over powered monster.

It's been a while since I poked into this thread... Yes, his idea is incredibly OP. No, it should not happen.

A BS classed ships does not need to have something to specificity deal with small fast targets. They are designed for large engagements. Your fleet should be organised enough to deal with light ships coming in close, with a mix of webs and other support dps.

Their entire argument falls apart when it's brought up that nearly every single other battleship in the game manages to do both PvP and PvE without bonused light drones.

.

No, they don't all need to be the same.

So stop asking for the Rattlesnake to be turned back into the Shield Dominix. They don't need to be the same.

RS shield missile drone
Domi Armor hybrid drone

only see 1 thing in common so not a double up, not the same

RABBLEDABBLE, the sky is black!

"all the people"?

Where? It's just you.

RS shield missile drone
Domi Armor hybrid drone

only see 1 thing in common so not a double up, not the same

Oh, you mean the other NPC corp poster.

How silly of me.

Because hobgoblins are a bigger threat to a rook/falcon than the omfg-get-it-off-get-it-off-oh-god-its-on-me-ubergecko.

Or something.

Personally, because it's just so damned versatile, I will be bringing along a mobile depot to refit between a heavy neut and an armor repper in my utility highslot.

After playing around with the Gecko for a few days I've come to the conclusion that I'm no longer as excited about them as I once was. Here are the things I really like about the Gecko:

GÇó It looks totally bad a**, and watching it fly and perform acrobatics is quite entertaining
GÇó Matches the color scheme of the new Rattlesnake

These are the things I'm not ecstatic about:

GÇó Cost; yes, it's free initially - but so is the first hit of crack *******... (seriously, c-+o-+c-+a-+i-+n-+e is on the ban list?)
GÇó Damage application until you get into hull is abysmal
GÇó It attracts NPC aggro like no other drone, and this means all the aggro in the new Rattlesnake
GÇó While it's faster and more resilient, if you bury one 50km+ deep it's still hooped

Damage application is fine - it's chewing through the disadvantaged shield and armor layers that's time consuming. Sentries can (and do) lock much, much quicker and apply damage several magnitudes better. So while it appears to have a fairly good dps, it's very much a paper tiger. The only application I really see these excelling at is PvP and structures - and maybe that's their intended purpose.

What I really despise is only being able to field one of these - because that's a huge loss of dps when you have to recall it. Every other drone-based cruiser (with the exception of the Gila) has the ability to field two of these, lessening any dps loss. Speaking of the Gila, man are they getting hosed on this - they can't even field one! The Stratios gets 2 and even the Vigilant and Cynabal get 1!

This thing feels so gimicky...

Rattle should be able to field "a full flight" of two Gecko drones to be what she needs to be. Just saying... and no, it wouldn't be OP especially if compared to some other overly powerful pirate ships.

[quote=Sarnia Aldurad
ramble ramble rant

We lose our alpha strike rang with Cruise Missiles & Torpedos... in exchange we get a bonus to missile KI/TH damage

ramble ramble
Regards.

SA

[quote=baltec1]


To me the distinction of having greater range in exchange for the significantly inferior application isn't worth the tradeoff for a Battleship.

If you can only really apply it to a webbed target, it's functionally the same range anyway.

The only battleship that doesn't have tradeoffs is the Eidolon.

Of course I did. You want to use torps at long range. Why bother? With the current bonus, cruises do more damage than torps did before, and have longer range. They are also far more effective against smaller targets.

First, not an alt of anyone who posts. I'm actual a Jita price check/forum poster alt.

Secondly, you don't fix an underpowered ship by making it OP. The bonuses seem to be designed to force you to make fitting decisions. That is a good thing.

Third, you might try being polite. Attempting to insult people doesn't tend to win anyone to your point of view. I don't really care myself, though. Do as you like.

Yep. With an additional launcher slot, the damage bonus, and velocity bonus, you could get 1100 DPS out to 25KM from the launchers alone. Add another 750 from Gardes. 1850 DPS, with no falloff at 25 KM. Yes, OP. (You'd need painters, etc. to fully apply it.)

TFi's can do those numbers, but they can't do it, apply it, and still have more than 2 slots for tank. The Rattler has the slots for it.

You can still get those numbers, you just will have to be closer, and that's the balance.

Stop using torpedoes.

The ship could fit 2.5 flights of heavies and 2 flights of lights before. It can still fit 2.5 flights of heavies and 2 flights of lights. It is getting almost double its current missile DPS, which more than makes up for the 30-40 dps the light drones lost. It is no more susceptible to e-war that is was before.

Unless you fitted your rattle to spew torps to 40km with heavy ECM drones, the new rattle will do everything it used to do, even better.

Lin, At optimal Sentrys have near perfect application. BUT based of your play-style from earlier, I take it you are flying with heavy drones and torps. Which is the Only fit that is being nerfed. ANd as i pointed out in that post, It has more DPS with cruise missiles than it currently does with torps. Also, if your jammed then your drones are unagroed, Meaning you are still dealing 50% of your damage.

It is BETTER AT BRAWLING to. Berserkers can hit frigates, and New cruise missiles deal more dps than the current torps.

Lin, Berserkers Or a Gecko will blap frigs just as fast if not faster than Light drones. They will do the same to cruisers faster than mediums do. Your playstyle will have to change some, But it become better at that play style.

If you're talking about PvE, even if I chop 30% off the time to kill of the current Gecko to take into account the Kronos changes, the Gecko's time to kill is better than any drone you want to name.

It blaps frigates, it bends cruisers over the sawhorse, and it still puts out ludicrous output against battleships.

Didn't even read it, did you?

I said even if you chop MORE than the Drone Interfacing nerf will reduce from the Gecko's DPS, the Gecko is still the big winner of all the drones with regards to time to kill. It's just so much faster than a heavy drone that it wins hands down.

L2Read.

I wasn't even talking to you. The guy I replied to, before you rudely butted in with more personal attacks because you don't actually have a legitimate point in any way shape or form, was talking about time to kill.

And there are some heavy drones, Berserkers and especially Geckos, whose stats are known, that will take down both frigates and cruisers faster than even bonused light or medium drones would.

Which exposes your entire "we need light drones" argument for the steaming heap of bullshit that it is. Which is why you butted in in the first place, I imagine.

The irony in your posting always cracks me up.

You have zero valid complaints. None.

You don't have any valid concerns, and you using a Snake for torps and light drones is so far beyond doing it wrong that even TEST wouldn't let you in.

Of course it is.
.

Both of you are being Rude to each other. Enough of this. Lin we addresed that your playstyle will have to change a littile, But you get MORE DPS with BETTER application than before if you drop your torps for cruise missiles.

Berserkers have HIGHER tracking than a gecko, and will have higher MWD speed with higher base speed. The changes are good, You just need to stop thinking heavy drones cant take out frigs in PVE

I love Priestess Lin's bi-polar tourettes disorder. Where she flames and cusses you for disagreeing with her, then 30 seconds later edits her post to make it somewhat civil.

You can disagree all you want, but you're wrong anyway.

No, that is a lie. Why do you lie so often, and so obviously?

Reality is the sentries will have blown up most before they get close, when you launch the heavies the frigs will be orbiting you at close range so travel time is near nill.

Their time to kill is worse than both a Gecko or two Berserkers. And the gap will only increase once heavy drones get a 43% speed boost next patch.

.

No, I'm saying that if you think that changes anything, that you aren't smart enough to do the research yourself.

The Gecko, travel time included, has a better time to kill than ANY light drone against frigate NPCs.

Some more irony.
Ferrous poisoning incoming.

If you had done any research at all, you wouldn't say such stupid things as light drones having a better time to kill than a Gecko or Sentries.

Because light drones are worse than both of those, which is why anyone who can actually play the game with their whole ass knows that they are no big loss on the new Rattlesnake.

I know you are ignoring what others are saying.

As I said, when you launch the heavies they will be orbiting you at close range so there is near no flight time for the heavies.

Anyone but you.

Name a frigate that orbits at long range.

Lin, A Gecko goes FASTERRRRR than a current hammer head. After the change it will still be comparable, as will Bersekers.

Lin, heavy drones are getting a larger increses the mediums, And if you are using heavys you would use a drone navigation link.
AND we can use the gecko as an example because it will have almost the same stats as a Berserker post changes

Plus, You should be using sentrys at anything other than point blank range, PVP or PVE

Lin you are not understanding this, Berserkers Or the gecko will be going almost the same speed as a medium would with a Drone nav. They WILL keep up with mediums and will kill the target faster.


Edit. Something like this
[Rattlesnake, New Setup 1]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Shield Power Relay II
Shield Power Relay II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Drone Navigation Computer II
Drone Navigation Computer II
100MN Microwarpdrive I
Large Shield Extender II
Shield Recharger II

Cruise Missile Launcher II,
Cruise Missile Launcher II,
Cruise Missile Launcher II,
Cruise Missile Launcher II,
Cruise Missile Launcher II,
Drone Link Augmentor II

Large Core Defense Field Purger I
Large Core Defense Field Purger I
Large Core Defense Field Purger I

Berserker II x2
Gecko x1
It has 340 DPS tank, is stable with the MWD off, and has 1621 DPS with ogres. Ogres would go 2.4km/s Gecko 3.7km/s same for berserkers
Edit wrong missiles derp

Lin, what ranges do NPC frigs orbit at, and what is their speed while orbiting.

ALSO 2 heavy drones 50m/3 kill stuff faster than 5 mediums 50m/3

Your sentries and missiles will have a cruiser dead much faster than meds.

WE were talking about a PVE snake. Never a PVP snake. A PVP snake would be using sentrys like EVERY OTHER DRONE BOAT

More like replacing it with an awesome robot hand.

What point would that be?
.

Lin, did you already post your fit?

I mean, since you are clearly absolutely superior in knowledge on how the Rattlesnake is done as opposed to the DEVs and the assempled players here (excluding epicus?), share your godly wisdom on how a Fit should be for PvE where your bonused lights and mediums are The Answer to everything below Battleship level.

Or something.

Not sure how that adds up. 125 band x 3 flights is 375 band of 400, so 25m^3 left over. I have a full snake with 2 sentry flights and 1 heavy flight now and can't fit an additional 50m^3 drones.

Also, while the loss of the bonus to lights is just that, the increase to missile damage means that I can actually switch to those lights with a much lower loss in overall DPS should I chose to, while still efficiently dealing with frigs since I'm on a ship that fitting DDA's to makes sense.

Finally, unless you were fitting to it's missile side the application of torp damage was pretty bad making cruise my go to and those still will be effective, and I anticipate the gain will be greater than the probably increase influence of things like NPC defenders.

Your refusal to see how the ship improves and/or just plain factual misinformation does not make the rest of us delusional.

Two or three missile vollies to remove most frigs,

And i think you dont have an understanding of what Geckos can do to frigs and cruisers. They MURDER them. If you put a drone nav they get their just as fast

. I watched the Gecko miss a spider drone 3 times then one shot it.

In said PvP fit, what drones are you using, for what circumstances, and why?

Just one you feel would be educational for the ignorant masses.

Actually, that was intended to be a shot at you. Hoping to get him to lay out that what he's doing is precisely what he and I have been saying for dozens of pages.

Looks like it's working, though, since he and I are getting similar PvP results. Especially with blapping frigates. I don't even have any light drones in my bay anymore.

I guess whichever numbskull told us you couldn't kill frigates with heavy drones is kicking themselves right about now.

[quote=Priestess Lin]

don't be ridiculous. Of course heavy drones can kill frigates. The thing you can't seem to get into your thick skull is that light and medium drones arrive on target sooner than heavy drones and greatly outpace heavy drones at blowing up a room full of frigates and cruisers. Heavy drones have to get lucky to hit.

Apparently you missed the part about how it took 4 shots for Gecko to kill a spider drowe.

scroll up.

Haven't you embarrassed yourself enough in this thread?

Wait, are we using a Geko as an example of what heavy drones can do because that seems dumb given the Geko's "drones on roids" nature.

When we are talking 10-15km then no, the lights will not get there and kill the target before the heavies arrive.

Past that point your sentries will still be hitting them. So yes, thats the range we are talking about.

Every ship that can field a flight of sentries uses them to blap frigates.

How about posting the fit you are using so we can see what exactly you are talking about because so far every time someone contradicts what you say you spiral off onto another subject and toss insults at them.

When we are talking 10-15km then no, the lights will not get there and kill the target before the heavies arrive.

Now are you going to post your fit

Some people seem to think the Snake is only good as a sniper. The undisputed fact is that other pirate faction battleships do this better.

The loss of missile velocity bonus and omni nerf further makes the snake weak as a sniper.

Therefore, what does the snake do best?

For one, it it currently has the largest drone bay of any battleship. This in itself makes the rattlesnake a unique ship in EVE.

Another is its ability to quickly and easily clear and loot a room and progress to the next. True, a Sniper Snake has more DPS, but that ship is played with a MJD, and the wrecks are spread all over the field and the sentrys are needed to kill everything in good time. It takes much longer for a mobile tractor unit to gather them all and for you to salvage them all.

The limits on mission completion and looting time for the Snake revolve around the time it can deploy salvage drones.


When you play a torpedo snake, battleships die very quickly. This is the most optimum use of launcher slots, being that battleships are quick to lock onto and you can apply the most DPS to them. Light drones and medium drones are needed to kill everything else. With +50% damage and HP on all its drones, they zip around the battlefield and pop frigates and cruises in seconds.

The faster your drones are done with their work, the faster you can deploy salvage drones. The snake has the perfect balance of missile DPS and drone DPS that ensure Battleships die quickly and so does everything else, all while flying towards the next warp gate. Because of the Snakes excellent ability to tank damage, the wrecks are all in close range and quickly collected, resulting in faster mission completion times if one chooses to loot.

With the loss of +50% bonus to all its drones and missile velocity bonus, the way to utilize the strengths of a rattlesnake best will be destroyed. Torpedoes will no longer have their viability, since other npc battleships will easily get out of their range and drones with +50% less damage and hp will result in lengthier periods before salvage drones can be deployed, resulting in lengthier mission completion times.

Currently, because of +50 bonus drone damage and hp, a Torpedo snake can loot and complete missions faster than a cruise or torp golem, but with these changes, there will be no reason at all to play a Rattlesnake since they both will have unbonused lights and mediums and the Golem will tank better AND do more damage.

For optimal game play, the applications of heavy drones for a battleships are almost non-existent. + other ships snipe better.

We already know the answer to that.

Also, I've determined now, that aside from the ubiquitous Warrior IIs to chase off the psychotically fast stuff like Interceptors, I have no use for light drones whatsoever in the new Snake. Especially not if I have a Gecko in my bay.

The Gecko annihilates anything within about 20km with laughable ease, and the sentries do the rest. All the while they're being pounded by my missiles.

After having sampled it on SiSi I am now worried it will get nerfed.